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princessbee's picture
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Vinnie and Charley!!

yeah yeah, it's the subject that BMFM fans have fixated on throughout the ages, that has been hashed out and stirred up and debated and deconstructed and desired... I'm about ten years too late to the party, which is entirely my own fault. I've read the fanfic, looked at the fan art... but for some reason I just never got actively vocal in the online fandom. But I have a great hungering NEED to talk BMFM right now so while I'm sure everything I'm gonna say has been said ad nauseum before, please bear with me. Hey, join in! I am entirely keen to hear other fans' input and thoughts.

I'm in the middle of a BMFM binge (happens every year or so) so I been watching as much of the old series as I have and the new one over and over (a lot of the new one for the first time!), which has made me reflective and musing on VxC and in the mood to ramble.

It's so frustrating that censors made them tone the dynamic down in the new series because it was part of the magic of the original series... and made things a little anti-climactic like the flashback farewell scene when the bros went back to Mars... no WAY it would've been that casual, not after three or so years of heavy flirting... even with Charley's repeated eye-rolly spurning of Vinster's passes. But in general that farewell was too rushed and casual. The four of them are a true family and there's a lot of love there. But you know, that's the way it goes in cartoons, it's not the first show to treat deep bonds so cavalierly so ANYWAY.

But then that got me thinking... obviously there's a lot of stuff that goes on "behind the scenes" which makes me wonder just how far they got, if anywhere at all, beyond what we saw on the show.


There's been some debate about just how serious Vinnie's interest in Charley really was. Vinnie's obviously got a major eye for the ladies, fancies himself a bit of a player, loves in general to flirt and sees success with women as a status symbol. Plus he's an amped-up, testosterone-riddled machismo-laden young guy stuck on a foreign planet having contact with only one woman on a regular basis. Maybe his tendency to flirt and hit on (and he definitely hits on her) Charley is just about working out some frustration and playing in line with his general personality. 

Nah. At the outset I think his flirtiness with Charley was just for the sake of it, Vinnie being Vinnie, but grew over time to be in earnest. I 100% believe his interest in Charley was totally genuine and very much about her... he had real feelings for her.

And, I believe, she did for him. I think the reason things stayed so casual between them was Charley and her refusal to give into his charms.

Because, in reviewing the original show I don't think things progressed beyond that flirtatiousness. Tataranowicz has stated before that Charley has trouble moving past the inter-species thing. I also think she's just not impressed with posturing macho man stuff and so is absolutely determined for a long time not to play into Vinnie's ego, for her own sense of self-respect.  That it is Vinnie's braggart ways that get in the way a lot... but I also think, while Vinnie is genuinely egotistical and high on himself, there's also a hefty dose of insecurity there, rarely glimpsed but definitely there... narcissists often have fragile egos, ironically... he has to show off and talk himself up as a way of covering that up, wears his confidence as armour... so Charley's repeated smack-downs - whilst I think we see he really likes them AND responds to them by becoming more attracted to her - do stop him from making any serious move on her. When Vinnie DOES get positive romantic attention he tends to suddenly get shy and awkward. This has happened with both Charley and Harley and I think is a very endearing revelation into what lies beneath the muscle-flexing exterior. He’s not quite as cocky and cocksure as he makes himself out to be. Like a lot of other fans, I see a very sweet and affectionate nature ultimately at the core of him… and one that is afraid of getting hurt. So he makes a lot of his passes playful… then rejection doesn’t (seem to) mean as much.  In Back to Mars when he’s trying to tell her how he feels and she shuts him down… he is obviously crushed… the one time he really tries to put himself on the line with her and is DEnied… of course when she grudgingly admits she’ll miss him too he is back to his old self but I think that brief exchange went a long way toward explaining why it never went further than it did.


Likewise, I think Charley initially has a strong adverse reaction to his egotism and posturing but over time, as she gets to know him better, he grows on her. I feel part of Charley’s resistance is because she’s been hurt before too – but especially the cross-species thing. I think there’s absolutely an immediate mutual attraction – which would’ve been really confronting for her, considering he’s a martian mouse, and something she has to deal with and overcome. Charley does feel taken for granted by the guys at times and Vinnie is definitely a lot more immature than her – which would also be offputting for her. My sense of Charley is she’s been living a pretty tough life as a very young woman alone in the world – running your own garage at age 22 says a LOT about a person – and really wouldn’t want any flaky sort of guy in her life who doesn’t make her feel properly appreciated. 

So because of all these factors, they never actually quite make it to making a serious move. Which just makes for massive regret later down the line. When they meet again in the new series. Charley pointedly ignores Vinnie for a moment to greet Modo and Throttle. Vinnie KNOWS he’s done wrong by her too, is nervous and apprehensive. It’s easier, for a moment, for Charley to rouse on him than admit how happy she is to see him. They haven’t spoken in ten years and he doesn’t even know how to explain it to her. Neither do I – that bit really got to me for a long time. The four of them were so close. I suppose it could be as simple as there having been no way for them to communicate… except considering the advanced technology they have, that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Then I noticed it’s only Vinnie she confronts about not having been in touch. Maybe that’s just because of the attraction they shared but… maybe it’s because he actually WAS the only one not to communicate with her?  Maybe she had been on the horn with Throttle and Modo now and then? When I gave it some serious thought the last couple of days I think it is in line with Vinnie’s personality to not be able to even deal with being separated from her – especially considering how things never got off the ground between them properly – and to decide the easiest thing to do once he got back to Mars was just ignore the whole situation altogether… onwards and upwards, no looking back. That way he doesn’t have to confront his feelings or deal with them. Of course he would’ve missed her and thought about her – but avoided as much as possible being too heavily reminded. That’s why he can’t really give her an answer when they meet again and why Charley can forgive him a moment later… she does understand him (even though I think she would be right to be angry too and to expect better from him in future). Being separated wouldn’t have been easy for her either, especially considering she had an even harder time than Vinnie being honest about her real feelings, always meeting his passes with a put down or any question by him about her feelings with studied nonchalance or dismissiveness. 

I think Charley would’ve regretted a lot not given Vinnie a clearer opening before he left too. I don’t think it’s at all realistic either of them spent ten years being totally single so I figure they both had relationships/affairs in that time. But at the end of the day I believe they are truly soulmates and it would only take being reunited for them to sort it out and hook it up. It’s a bummer the new series had their flirtiness reduced so much and had Charley so much more mature with Vinnie so much more immature (not as appealing a dynamic… manbabies aren’t sexy… especially not to a babe like Charley…) as the way they could’ve played it would’ve been so fun and interesting to watch… but I think Charley’s decision to go with them to Mars indicates she’s finally at peace with the cross-species thing and ready to open her heart. And I truly believe that it would only take her being receptive and making that crystal clear for Vinnie to open up in kind, dive right in, no holds barred, typical Vinnie fashion.

And of course Vinnie would’ve wanted closure over Harley… that is only natural. She was taken in terrible circumstances and just when a romance between them could’ve blossomed… of course he would retain feeling for her and sorrow for the past and a desire to see her be okay. That’s natural and normal but ultimately, I don’t think, a barrier to Charley and Vinnie. Tataranowicz said that the new series resolved Vinnie and Harley once and for all… which, along with Charley’s decision to leave earth and go with the bros… leave them with all their options open.

And, I think, they went where they naturally drawn from the start… right into each other’s arms!


Well, I just had to get all that down. I know it’s pretty quiet around here these days but if anyone does want to reply… add anything or quibble… I’d welcome the chance to spitball.


Edited by: princessbee on 15 Jan 2014
The Prodigal Fan's picture
Joined: 04 Oct 2006

Yes, I know I've drifted away from here again, for which I apologise.  However, to come back and see a Vinnie/Charley thread is like whatever the positive equivalent of a red rag to a bull is!  Love the pair of them to bits!

You've done a pretty comprehensive analysis, I'd say.  I must say I'd never thought of the possibility that the other bros had been in touch when they were away, but not our Vin.  I'm still not entirely convinced - I can't see him avoiding Charley altogether.  Still, it's an intriguing theory.

Other than that, I think I agree with everything!

princessbee's picture
Joined: 19 Nov 2007

Thanks so much, I appreciate the input from a BM afficiando like you!

Yeah, I guess we can only speculate re contact. I know they simplify these sorts of details for kids cartoons, which us older fans love dwelling on. drives me nuts but I do love discussing it with other fans!

I don't think Vinnie wouldn't communicate with her cos he doesn't care... the total opposite... because he cares too much. Vinnie comes with a lot of baggage due to Harley, though he hides it well. Losing another potential great love would've hit him hard. Plus his immaturity... I think he might've just wanted to avoid further heartache all together and just ignore and avoid the issue... not a mature or pleasant way to deal with it... but when our hearts are at stake we don't always do the 'right' or best thing... fills his time with distractions... managing to be always 'out' when calls are happening... and before you know it ten years has passed... I love Vinnie and he has a big heart and lots of loyalty but he can be a bit flaky and avoidant... he would regret it... probably beat himself up about it too... and then it gets even harder because he's not just avoiding heartache but avoiding being accountable for his avoidance... lol... and hurting Charley. I think if Vinnie and Charley did finally end up together she would be really good for him in forcing him to confront his issues and deal with stuff as an adult... she would balance him. I LOVE THIS SHIP.


Hoping other people might chime in?

Torama's picture
Shaolin Webmonkey
Joined: 13 Sep 2005

Analysis is good.  Shipping scares me :P (and conversing for the sake of conversing not because I have anything worthwhile to add because see previous :)

princessbee's picture
Joined: 19 Nov 2007

lol shipping is the only reason I get involved in fandoms! XD shipping-4-lyfe!

Defender Kaotena's picture
Joined: 23 Oct 2005

Wow...these are really good insights on the struggles on Vinnie and Charley's relationship.  You obviously gave this a lot of thought.  And I do agree with a lot of these points.  Often those who act the most confident are the most insecure.  Also-in "Ravens" when Charley blew Vinnie a kiss for saving her, he gave a sheepish smile.  First sign that pointed out "Huh; he's not bragging.  Guess all that bluster is mostly show."

Intrepidwarriors's picture
Joined: 02 Nov 2005

Blooming Heck! That was an awesome read in itself.  Very reflective

Bersker's picture
Joined: 13 Sep 2016


As a furry i am very supportive of interspecies romance but only if it involves magical creature beings, sentinent humanoid beings, alien beings or mutant beings but never to a four legged regular feral creature as that would be beastality. Yet Vinnie and Charlene are proof that you don't have to be the same species or race to fall in love, especially in Sci-fi and fantasy stories which had staple stories of humans with magical creature beings (ala mermaids or vampires or gargoyles), mutant beings, alien beings and humanoid sapient beings from another world. I'm proud to see that these two are sapient mammal beings who have feelings and are consenting adults as it's inspiring to see appearances mean nothing for they love each other for who they are and not what they are.

Nothing wrong with interspecies or rather inter-being romance as it worked for Eliza and Goliath, Roger/Jessica Rabbit (animated human and animated rabbit), Nick and Judy (Zootopia and both are mammals), Sally and Sonic (Squirrel and Hedgehog mammal beings), April and Don in Ninja Turtles, Howard the Duck and Beverly in the comics of Marvel's Howard The Duck, Star Wars humans and aliens, Star Trek humans and aliens, Hellboy and Liz in the movies/comics, Eric and Ariel in Little Mermaid, Madison and Tom Hanks in Splash, Hepizah and Consair in X-Men comics/animated show (human space pirate and alien humanoid sapient feline/skunk being), Minerva Mink and a human lover in a fanfiction story series, Duckman who romanced with different mammal anthro beings/different bird people/even human ladies on the show, Batman and Cheetah on Justice League, Beast and Carley in X-Men TAS (human and mutant), Beauty and The Beast 80's show, Polly Pineblossom and that rich guy who was once a jerk on New Adventures of Mighty Mouse etc.

I believe in comics especially furry ones/fanfiction/sci-fi fantasy stories even Star Wars/animation/games/Sci-fi fantasy films etc. that a person should have that right to love whoever they want to love as the artist or writer thinks so and i am a long time open minded furry as i do support it in interspecies romance even of humans with alien beings/humanoid beings/mutant and magical creature beings in stories, animation, games, comics and fanfiction.

As Prince Lir in Peter S Beagle's The Last Unicorn (Book and movie, anyone seen or remembers the movie or book?) once said when he found out the loveliest girl he ever laid eyes on and romanced known as Lady Amalthea is a humanized unicorn "Unicorn, mermaid, sorceress, vampire, name you'd give her would surprise or frighten me, i love whom i love" which is one of my all time favorite quotes.